"Kailand09" (kailand09)
08/25/2015 at 06:24 • Filed to: None
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"Kailand09" (kailand09)
08/25/2015 at 06:24 • Filed to: None | 3
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Or is everyone talking about a canopy when I feel like the bigger problem could be their venue choices?
Controversial, but do Indycars actually belong on an oval? Maybe I’m ill informed but I feel like we don’t see quite as many things happening in f1 or open cockpit prototype cars that are on road courses?
LongbowMkII
> Kailand09
08/25/2015 at 06:41 |
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high speeds have high entropy. Going at 230mph bad shit is more liable to happen.
RTeeJay
> Kailand09
08/25/2015 at 06:44 |
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Thank you for finally saying this. At a majority of the high speed ovals, there has been an incident (or multiple incidents) during the race weekend, and the simple solution is to not to an oval over 1.5 mile (with Indy and Texas being the exception). Iowa, Milwaukee, and Richmond were three damn good races this year. And the road course racing has heen great too. I would take more races at New Hampshire, Phoenix, Rockingham, and a revitalized Nazareth sppedway over Pocono and Fontana.
Flavien Vidal
> Kailand09
08/25/2015 at 06:56 |
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So, no... Oval are fine... They have been made VERY safe with absorbing walls and extremely fast emergency services...
The problem is the open cockpit itself. It’s way too easy to get hit by a debris.
And cars look a lot cooler, potentially faster too, so why not?
SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman
> LongbowMkII
08/25/2015 at 07:12 |
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I don’t think Entropy is the word for this. Energy maybe?
Axel-Ripper
> Kailand09
08/25/2015 at 07:15 |
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No. This can (and does) happen on road courses as well. Last year James Hinchcliffe got hit in the head with a piece of debris at the Indy GP (the one on the Indy road course) and sustained a pretty severe concussion. Also, with Justin Wilson’s crash, he was slowed down for the wreck in front of him, so he was probably down well into road course speed territory, it was just a really big piece of debris. (F=ma). Put canopies on these things and they’ll be able to go faster (they’re targeting track record at IMS this year one way or another) and be safer.
Hinch’s headshot:
Also, canopies do have the bonus of looking pretty awesome:
hike
> Kailand09
08/25/2015 at 07:49 |
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We've seen this type of injury happen way too many times on road courses, so it's still possible there too. However, I do agree that the number of ovals and Nascar type tracks needs to be reduced. We've seen far to many crashes at these tracks to the point it was starting to sound like Nascar they way they tall about the racing. Indy car is fantastic racing when on the right course (and in indy), but to me, on tracks like this, it's just total crap. I happened to turn it on for the last 30 or so laps last week and hated every minute of it. (though most was spent under caution.)
boredalways
> Kailand09
08/25/2015 at 09:01 |
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Poorly designed nose cone — shouldn’t be designed to separate from the car in one piece in the event of a crash
nermal
> Kailand09
08/25/2015 at 09:53 |
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The issue with canopies is that they need to be made so that the driver can be quickly and easily extracted, in case the car is upside down and on fire.
Also, flying debris doesn’t just happen on ovals. Felipe Massa was severely injured a few years ago after taking a spring to the face, as one example that comes to mind.
GUYMANDUDE
> Kailand09
08/25/2015 at 10:12 |
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I agree, open wheel cars on ovals is just dangerous. Maybe they can make an exception for Indy, for namesake and herratige, but I could do without the rest.
ceanderson920
> Flavien Vidal
08/25/2015 at 10:17 |
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I think one of the reasons for an open cockpit is that the driver can get out of the car quicker for an emergency, same with rescuing them from like fire and stuff. But with the fireproof gas tanks there have not been many fires in a while, and by using technology from fighter jet canopy emergency release they could in theory put a canopy on a open wheeled car.
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Flavien Vidal
> ceanderson920
08/25/2015 at 10:24 |
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I’ll copy paste what I answered before on that subject...
The closed cockpit not openning well argument is not really a problem...
Tetsuya Ota stayed for 90 seconds at 800 degrees in his car before being dragged out and he survived.
On an oval track, he would have been stucked in fire for less than 30 seconds for sure. Also, if AMG managed to do well with it’s SLS gullwing doors emergency roll over openning, I’m sure some kind of beefed up version can exist for open wheelers...
These cars are called openwheelers, not open cockpit. Closing the damn thing shouldn’t be a problem at all...
Tetsuya Ota today...
McLarry
> Kailand09
08/25/2015 at 10:37 |
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I do agree that ovals are more dangerous for Indy cars... I think Schumacher once said the same when asked if he would consider a move - he said he would not because it was a lower series than F1 and too dangerous to race these cars on ovals. I say leave the drafting to the stock cars, and get the open-wheels out onto the road courses where they belong.
For this particular hazard, though? It happened to Massa and it happened to Hinchcliffe, and unless I’m mistaken neither of them were on an oval. Granted neither of them died of the resulting injuries, either, but honestly I’m not sure how much of that is down to speed vs the weight of the nosecone compared to the pieces they hit, etc. I guess my determination would be that the speeds inherent to the oval race made the hazard more deadly, but it did not create the hazard.
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ceanderson920
> Flavien Vidal
08/25/2015 at 10:38 |
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I think they have the ability to put a closed cockpit on, I just don’t think they will within the next 5 years. The next 10 years might be a different story but in the near future the only series I see doing it is Formula E. I can see FE taking the closed canopy thing and running with it, if they can get it so the battery’s to last an entire race that is.
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McLarry
> boredalways
08/25/2015 at 10:41 |
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I don’t think they are designed to separate from the car in a crash, it’s just a consequence that they have to be replaceable during pit stops in the event of collision damage - damage to the front wing often necessitates a complete nose change.
Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
> McLarry
08/25/2015 at 10:57 |
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You realize that would mean no more Indianapolis 500 right? Getting rid of ovals is not what indy car needs. It’s no more dangerous than nascar at the Oval tracks and now a days indy cars actually do race on more street and road courses than ovals
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Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
> hike
08/25/2015 at 11:01 |
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They have reduced them. This year out if 16 races only six were at ovals. And that includes 2 of the most significant ovals in indy car history being IMS and the Milwaukee mile
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boredalways
> McLarry
08/25/2015 at 11:16 |
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The nose cone of a F1 car would never do that. Yes I know it’s apples to oranges, moreso when F1 doesn’t run ovals. But the Indy car front aero kits and F1 front wing are designed as a crash structure, mounting basically to the same place on the monocoque. Is there ballast in the nose of a F1 car that I’m not aware of?
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McLarry
> Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero
08/25/2015 at 14:14 |
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Honestly I’ve never found the Indy 500 that interesting, so while it does bother me to lose the connection to history, that’s about it... How do you justify the statement that it’s no more dangerous than NASCAR, though? NASCAR drivers are completely surrounded by a cage and bodywork, and their cars are slower and much less dependent on downforce for grip. Ovals are all about drafting...why are downforce cars drafting? Also, what does it matter that they race road courses more than ovals? It doesn’t change whether ovals are more hazardous (and boring) or not.
Further, to be clear, while I am advocating that Indy should eschew the ovals, I’m not saying that doing so will solve the safety problem at hand.
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McLarry
> boredalways
08/25/2015 at 14:18 |
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I’m not sure whether F1 cones contain ballast - I would suspect not since it could vary from nosecone to nosecone, but then again maybe that’s more a ‘feature’ than a ‘bug’. Honestly, I didn’t know the Indy nosecones contained ballast until the commentators said so on Sunday (F1 is more my realm as well), so perhaps I don’t know enough to comment on the matter.